2nd Starcraft

• Mass Mutalisks vs. Protoss
• Protoss Win Rate is Too Low in Tournaments
• Carrier Removal in Heart of the Swarm
• Terran Can’t Beat Protoss
• Ghost EMP is Too Weak
• Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg
• Nydus Worm is Too Inconsistent — Make It More Like the Overlord Transport

Jump over to the blog to read more.

Source: Battle.net

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

EMP is too weak? Hardly so. All you need to do is spam it on their army and it deals direct damage and cannot be moved away from. I hardly see that as “weak”.

FFE too difficult to stop? Just watch any Korean Zerg beat NaNiwa and that’s enough of that debate.

However the other topics were definitely interesting to read about as they were reoccurring topics that have been brought up on Reddit and TL etc.

7 hours, 51 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

I find it funny how “Terran can’t beat protoss” “ghost emp is too weak” and “FFE is difficult to stop as zerg” are complained about enough to be brought into this discussion.

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

EMP is too weak? Hardly so. All you need to do is spam it on their army and it deals direct damage and cannot be moved away from. I hardly see that as “weak”.

FFE too difficult to stop? Just watch any Korean Zerg beat NaNiwa and that’s enough of that debate.

However the other topics were definitely interesting to read about as they were reoccurring topics that have been brought up on Reddit and TL etc.

^^Basically everything I was going to say. Thanks

The topics are so contradictory, its funny. Protoss has terrible win rate in high level tournaments, and yet the Protoss race is overpowered? Hmmm I love things that actually make sense.

7 hours, 51 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

I find it funny how “Terran can’t beat protoss” “ghost emp is too weak” and “FFE is difficult to stop as zerg” are complained about enough to be brought into this discussion.

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

But that’s just the thing, TvP only seems balanced at high level.

The thing about TvP is in the late game the amount of difficulty is incredibly one sided. A protoss lategame army of a standard composition like chargelots, colossi, archons, stalkers and possibly a few templar is basically A+click, the only exception being blink and templar control, neither of which are crucial to winning a battle. With a standard terran composition like MMM, vikings and ghosts it’s much more difficult, because each unit requires a different kind of micro. Your bio requires stutter stepping, you need to EMP with ghosts and use vikings to pick off colossus. The only one of those which can be done by A+moving is the vikings, although you ideally want to be target firing with those. If you don’t stutter step with bio it gets decimated by storms and colossus. If you don’t hit your EMPs your main army is going to be unbelievably less effective.

What protoss actually needs is a unit that has a higher skill cap. If you watch MKP marine split, then watch a silver league played marine split, the difference will be massive. If you watch HuK control archons and colossus, then watch a silver league played control archons and colossus, there will be a difference but it won’t be a very big difference.

What protoss needs is for an easy to use unit like the colossus to be replaced with a unit like the reaver that’s actually difficult to use. This would make the matchup more balanced because both sides would require equal amounts of micro. This would also lead to protoss having a higher skill cap which would inevitably lead to protoss winning major tournaments more often, proverbially killing two birds with one stone.

7 hours, 19 minutes agoQuote by Spartan929

7 hours, 51 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

I find it funny how “Terran can’t beat protoss” “ghost emp is too weak” and “FFE is difficult to stop as zerg” are complained about enough to be brought into this discussion.

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

But that’s just the thing, TvP only seems balanced at high level.

Which is all that matters.

7 hours, 17 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

7 hours, 19 minutes agoQuote by Spartan929

7 hours, 51 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

I find it funny how “Terran can’t beat protoss” “ghost emp is too weak” and “FFE is difficult to stop as zerg” are complained about enough to be brought into this discussion.

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

But that’s just the thing, TvP only seems balanced at high level.

Which is all that matters.

Keeping up with your record of zero quality zero content posts I see.

EDIT: Just saw the irony in this post so I figure I’ll state why you’re wrong. Let’s say there are two races, let’s call them race A and race B, and they’re both in a professional strategy game. Now race A takes at least 300 APM on average to compete on the professional level, race B however, only takes about 10 APM to compete on the pro level, the skill cap for race B is also 10 APM. Now, it so happens that this system is perfectly balanced, even though one race is 30x harder to play as. But it is balanced, which is all that matters right?

Protoss Win Rate is Too Low in Tournaments

I agree, not sure why though.

Carrier Removal in Heart of the Swarm

Should really make it some kind of viable unit, honestly I have no reason to go out of my way to tech to Carriers, their slow, fat, bulky and only good in mass numbers/

Terran Can’t Beat Protoss

LMFAO.

Ghost EMP is Too Weak

LMFAO.

Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg

I don’t even understand what this means? A fast expand is to difficult to stop? Take a quick 3rd then? wtf?

Nydus Worm is Too Inconsistent — Make It More Like the Overlord Transport

I feel like all it needs is a small health buff, but I agree it needs a buff.

1 – I’m glad that the Nydus worms are in focus again.. Pretty not pleased how late game TvZ/ZvT tends to work.. It’s like – all the units from both the races are required in the one main game-deciding BIG FIGHT.. Well Terran might have a little bit of a better position cause they don’t require a greater amount of units in order to deal some damage, but I don’t believe that Zerg are in that bad of a position as it seems to be either..

Z players IMO are kinda afraid (understandably) to deal some damage back in the Terran production clusters then.. But the problem is – until the “master Zergs” like DRG/IdrA/Nestea/Dimaga start to RISK it more – we just won’t be able to know..

IDK – but IMO – ZvT late game (and the TvZ with it as well) would become much better and more multi-prongued more dynamic matchup with runbys, drops, nukes, nyduses, bane-drops, e.t.c if those mechanics would become less risky.. Nydus mechanic is a good one to start working onto..

Hell that’s why I prefer Ultras to BroodLords overall as well as – Lords seem to draw the focus of the game on them too little too much without being able to make it redirect to another location of action..

However – due to this reason – that’s probably why Nyduses should receive a little bit more care and lead to abbandon (at least for some margain) the high-risk-high-reward concept (that DK was talking about) and make it more like a moderate-risk-moderate-reward mechanic the Nydus by upping their HP and/or Armor but have their transportation capacity limited.. Something of that kind – a +1 Armor and +25-50 HP might do it so SCVs only wouldn’t be able to stop those completely only by themselves..

The HR-HRW isn’t a good idea for transportation mechanic IMO so it should be lowered to more like a M/HR-M/HRW outcome

I’m however pleased of the PvZ/ZvP mechanic regardless of people saying sh*t about it.. It has the potential to be THE MATCHUP TO ENJOY (for both of the players) IMO.. So yah – the ZvT is my main concern ATM and glad to see it being closely observed..

2 – The Mass-Muta problem – well IDK – they’re annoying I agree, but I also thing that it’s nothing that Blink Stalkers or Phoenix-based play couldn’t deal with.. Maybe up the Damage vs Light Air of the Sentry a bit, but kinda not convinced that there should be a greater anti-Muta mechanic in the Protoss ****nal.. Especially not if it was mobile (i.e. could be used in attacks as well)..

As for HotS (DKim kinda made it be HotS-related as well) – can’t say that i’m amazed by the level of ignoring the Carrier-removal problem:

3 – Carrier removal – probably OK with the reasoning told behind it (that Colossi impose threat so they force AA from the opponents and Carriers would come in time when they wouldn’t be welcomed overall), but, BUT – here’s the problem I see (talked about this already, kinda amazed how DK doesn’t (or doesn’t want to) see it:

What will defeat Vikings in PvT in HotS since I believe that the Warhounds will wipe out the floor (pretty easily – almost like Imortals do) of Stalkers overall.. Let’s not make the mistake – basicly the Warhounds are designed to be the anti-Muta/anti-Stalker specialized unit.. So yah – not being able to destroy Vikings as Protoss = DEATH IMO.. No Dead Vikings for Protoss with Warhounds walking and accompanying M&M around is a little bit too much for Protoss to deal with I’m afraid..

But – there’s a lot till the real picture comes out though, so yah : Nydus effectiveness output is the one I’d closely observe and focus (which I’m glad that they do) on now

TT and odgy:

7 hours, 9 minutes agoQuote by Spartan929

7 hours, 17 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

7 hours, 19 minutes agoQuote by Spartan929

7 hours, 51 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

I find it funny how “Terran can’t beat protoss” “ghost emp is too weak” and “FFE is difficult to stop as zerg” are complained about enough to be brought into this discussion.

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

But that’s just the thing, TvP only seems balanced at high level.

Which is all that matters.

Keeping up with your record of zero quality zero content posts I see.

EDIT: Just saw the irony in this post so I figure I’ll state why you’re wrong. Let’s say there are two races, let’s call them race A and race B, and they’re both in a professional strategy game. Now race A takes at least 300 APM on average to compete on the professional level, race B however, only takes about 10 APM to compete on the pro level, the skill cap for race B is also 10 APM. Now, it so happens that this system is perfectly balanced, even though one race is 30x harder to play as. But it is balanced, which is all that matters right?

Too bad that those numbers are extremely over exagurated and not true to how the game is currently balanced at all. I find PvT to be fairly balanced at the moment really. There are people such as Kas and Bomber who are just dominating TvP at the moment and and players like MC who are dominating PvT at the moment.

Each race requires their own amount of skill and each race applies that skill in different ways.

And also I was saying that the only thing that mattered was that it was balanced at high level of play. Everything is going to be imbalanced and thrown off in lower leagues because the people playing aren’t playing well so of course some races are going to look better.

6 hours, 16 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

And also I was saying that the only thing that mattered was that it was balanced at high level of play. Everything is going to be imbalanced and thrown off in lower leagues because the people playing aren’t playing well so of course some races are going to look better.

It’s more that the play styles are so sporadic and random that the balance doesnt stay consistent. I lost a game to a Terran player because i scouted double gas and a fast factory, so i assumed banshees. I play defensive so i can get observers and stalkers out in good numbers and he walks up with a massive amount of marines and a-moves the front of my base and drops 4 medivacs worth of marines in my base. i mean wtf did he need 2 gas for??? stim, factory, starport, medivacs. maybe reactors.

TL;DR balance at lower leagues is not fine-tuneable. Itll get to an acceptable level but there is not enough consistency to get it better than that.

If you expand when you attack, your expansion is defended by him ****ting his pants.

3 hours, 7 minutes agoQuote by Brisingr852

6 hours, 16 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

And also I was saying that the only thing that mattered was that it was balanced at high level of play. Everything is going to be imbalanced and thrown off in lower leagues because the people playing aren’t playing well so of course some races are going to look better.

It’s more that the play styles are so sporadic and random that the balance doesnt stay consistent. I lost a game to a Terran player because i scouted double gas and a fast factory, so i assumed banshees. I play defensive so i can get observers and stalkers out in good numbers and he walks up with a massive amount of marines and a-moves the front of my base and drops 4 medivacs worth of marines in my base. i mean wtf did he need 2 gas for??? stim, factory, starport, medivacs. maybe reactors.

TL;DR balance at lower leagues is not fine-tuneable. Itll get to an acceptable level but there is not enough consistency to get it better than that.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

7 hours, 51 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

I find it funny how “Terran can’t beat protoss” “ghost emp is too weak” and “FFE is difficult to stop as zerg” are complained about enough to be brought into this discussion.

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

EMP is too weak? Hardly so. All you need to do is spam it on their army and it deals direct damage and cannot be moved away from. I hardly see that as “weak”.

FFE too difficult to stop? Just watch any Korean Zerg beat NaNiwa and that’s enough of that debate.

However the other topics were definitely interesting to read about as they were reoccurring topics that have been brought up on Reddit and TL etc.

People complain base on their own experiences regardless of how valid that experience is. I think it is understandable these questions where picked, although I would like a better balance Q&A or more of a article about what Blizzard is currently looking at balance wise.

2 hours, 42 minutes agoQuote by Omega

7 hours, 51 minutes agoQuote by Gemini_19

I find it funny how “Terran can’t beat protoss” “ghost emp is too weak” and “FFE is difficult to stop as zerg” are complained about enough to be brought into this discussion.

None of those are true at all to any extent.

Terran can’t beat Protoss? Just look at any high level TvP…

EMP is too weak? Hardly so. All you need to do is spam it on their army and it deals direct damage and cannot be moved away from. I hardly see that as “weak”.

FFE too difficult to stop? Just watch any Korean Zerg beat NaNiwa and that’s enough of that debate.

However the other topics were definitely interesting to read about as they were reoccurring topics that have been brought up on Reddit and TL etc.

People complain base on their own experiences regardless of how valid that experience is. I think it is understandable these questions where picked, although I would like a better balance Q&A or more of a article about what Blizzard is currently looking at balance wise.

Yeah I get that point and I do that as well however there are so many high level games showing that those three problems really aren’t problems.